Can Submission Be Dominated?

No, it’s not what you think.

I Follow a number of blogs. Many of them are like ours in that their core theme is either BDSM and/or D/s. For those of you I Follow who don’t have such themed musings, well I just think you’re fucking interesting and enjoy reading what’s on your mind, why you think coffee baristas are cult figures and the sort.

It seems that, unless I’m just chancing into a significantly disproportionate number of them, most if not all of the non-writing/author erotic blogs are written by submissives. And not just submissives, but new submissives. Like in the first weeks or months of kinky life newborn submissives. No idea if a certain, much maligned book series has anything to do with this. I doubt it.

Anyway, as I was driving into town for lunch and some library time the other day the sheer volume of these infant submissive blogs had me thinking. First, I commend them for embracing and exploring an aspect of their sexuality that many will go to the dirt nap never knowing. It is not easy to submit. And I mean “submit”. To really let go of one’s self and find total freedom through absolute surrender. It borders on Zen, meditation, devout religion.

The blogs are rife with protocol, ritual, hierarchy, often very eloquently described and expounded on. Manners abound, roles defined, punishments exquisitely celebrated.

For many of them it is an attempt at a lifestyle. It is German opera 24/7/365 for them. That’s fucking commendable, as I mentioned previously. If they can find inner peace and happiness through the total servitude of an Other, more power to them to exchange.

Invariably there will be a declaration of rules, or a protocol, sometimes even the terms of a contract. Those are also filled with clear, concise definitions of what is and is not acceptable, expected, demanded of the submissive from their Other. They’re often followed by beautifully crafted posts by the submissive to their Other professing their total submission, how they crave it, the lengths to which they will go to serve them unconditionally. Again, its wonderful to see such committment. It does not matter how sick or twisted others may view it, it’s a total commitment to a cause or belief. I applaud them for it. It’s a place I personally have no desire to live, and I know for damn sure Leigh would not just bristle but laugh uncontrollably if I suggested this to her for us.

A final observation is, almost always, the total and complete absence of their Other in any manner other than mention by the submissive. I have my views on this, but that is for another time.

But as I drove I wondered if, in their professed zeal and passion to be Another’s whim and property, they would allow their submission to be Dominated?

Confused? Allow me to explain.

Submissives in a relationship like this will do, within pre-determined hard limits and the content of their verbal, oral or written contract, anything to please their Other.

Anything.

They crave discipline. Often times desire humiliation. Definitely enjoy being reprimanded for “bratty” or unsubmissive behavior. The ritual of presentation and protocol is practically a cult of two, ruled by one.

We’ll imagine that I am a Dominant in such a relationship (Leigh just spewed coffee somewhere I bet)

So submissive of mine, answer me the following:

If I, as a Dominant in the dynamic, directed you to not be so submissive all the time, would you?

In other words, would you allow your submission to be Dominated by your Dominant?

If I told you it would please me if you weren’t always my slave, wouldn’t honoring my wish, in fact, be doing exactly as I want?

It’s like the joke where a sultry, sexy, provocatively dressed woman saunters up to a man in a bar and coos in his ear “I’ll do anything…anything…you want for $500.” To which the man puts his beer down, looks her in the eye and says “Paint my fucking house.”

Would you submit your submission for Domination?

In your contract you stated your unconditional service to me. That you would do your best to please me. That as long as hard limits weren’t broken you were mine to do with as I pleased for my pleasure.

What if that included painting my house, if you will? Not literally, but figuratively. If I commanded you to honor your contract by not submitting all of you, what would you do?

I imagine a number of you in D/s relationships reading this might be seething right now. Not my intent, honestly. It’s just how my mind, which you all should know by now to a dark, twisted theater of the imagination, works.

Is it a damned if I do, damned if I don’t scenario? Likely. But it would please me to see you twist, suffer, agonize. You love to be pushed to your limits…and beyond. You know this. You crave this. You want this.

But not like this, right? Wouldn’t that make you unsubmissive to me?

Just something to think about when you drive into town.

- Scot

55 responses to “Can Submission Be Dominated?

  1. I like it…I like it a lot (stolen from that furniture commercial). Sir and I have actually discussed this. And He doesn’t want me to follow Him around bowing all the time. Which, to be honest, makes me happy too. I am hoping He will chime in on my blog at some point. But it is a good point. I may have to ponder this and write about it on my own blog so as not to have a 500 word reply here LOL

    • I was hoping you would comment. It does place the submissive in quite a conundrum, but to disavow it would, in essence, be assuring that 100% true and total submission is not an option.

  2. hmmmm, fascinating post! I would say that asking her to “not be submissive” is in fact keeping within the spirit of the agreement. She’s obeying what you are commanding, regardless of what that is. I would be hard pressed to believe, based on my experiences, that not acting submissive would change the underlying dynamic of the power exchange & the relationship. She is always serving, even when she is commanded not to be, in essence, by her not being submissive, she is still in fact obeying your order, making her submissive to you.

    BTW, I enjoy your blog and your perspective.

      • Circular logic! If this was an excel workbook, there would be a circular reference error ont this one! :))

        It seems to me that the real question is “how is submission defined?”.

        For me, it’s not about whether or not I am acting “submissive”, it’s whether or not I am doing what my Sir is asking me to do and to me, that is submitting.

  3. I think there’s a space in lifestylers (of which I am not) that’s called “delegation”. Basically, once the rules are established, the Dom delegates some decisions to the sub with less overseeing and discipline.

    For example, let’s say you like her to dress a certain way. For a whlie you’ll tell her which clothes to wear, until she gets what you like. And then, you can simply tell her “just wear what you know would please me”. Adjustments if she slips, otherwise, you don’t really need to exert direct control over this anymore.

    It may not be exactly what you’re thinking about, but it’s a way to let go of having to control all the time. And we tend to do it unconsciously, without rules or a dom to tell us what to do anyway. Who doesn’t like to dress to please their SO?

      • As I’m rereading and reading other people’s comments, I find that a lot of people have been circling around the idea that “slaves” and “subs” are different types and should not be confused with each other without really naming it. Well, they’re different. Slaves are in totally different types of relationships which is suited to very, very few people.

        However, to go to the heart of your question.

        I think you need to qualify in what way you mean to “not submit”. Do you mean for daily tasks that don’t really require supervision? Do you mean a certain aspect of things done in bed?

        Or, another idea: would it mean that you could perversely try to re-gain submission on the thing that the person is not supposed to submit to? That’s confusing, let me give an example: you tell your sub not to submit, to, let’s say, anal sex. Now, you *want* anal sex. What do you do? Do you wrestle it out of her or do you respect the fact that she has a say in the matter?

        There are so many conditionals here. Is it temporary or permanent? What aspect of the relationship should not be submitted to? I think that unless the sub is a doormat, the usual aspects of life outside of bed usually take care of themselves without the need to mention it. I mean, having to ask permission to do anything, like clean the dishes or go to the bathroom, must be insanely tedious.. The only reason you would need to “release” a sub from submission is because she had no freedom before in that area.

        It’s an interesting point of theory, and I’d be curious to know the unsaid stories mentioned further down, because I’m sure practice would look very different.

        Now, where’s my copy of Butler’s Psychic Life of Power?

      • “I think you need to qualify in what way you mean to “not submit”.”

        Valid point, and before I reply thank you for expounding so eloquently on your thoughts. I appreciate the time it took, as well as the zest behind the words.

        By “not submit” I basically envisioned a submissive putting the cart before the horse or sprinting before they crawl. Their zeal to be/do is exciting and surely appreciated, but some of the things I read that they do so blindly just made me wonder how they would react if they were told to not to. Would that same fire burn as hot and bright if their vision or fantasy of being totally submissive came back to bite them.

  4. This is why they say the submissive has all the power. :)

    Like Leigh I’d laugh if my Sir ever suggested such a relationship. I would not be capable of being such a submissive or slave, and that would be the end of that.
    For those that I know with such a relationship, I don’t believe their relationship would continue with such a change of tide. As you stated they crave, humiliation, punishment, and the like. Their being less submissive would be like not submitting, rather than submitting. lol that was fun sentence to write. Of course this is all speculation on my end.

    • Actually the opposite, from my view. By honoring the Dominant’s command/request to surrender total submission, they would actually be submitting even more.

      So by not submitting, they submit more. Get it? :)

  5. I think my brain is tying itself in knots around this one…It would be the most painful expression of submission I think, to have it take the form of not submitting…

    I’ll have to think about that for a while lol. Really I just wanted to say that I loved this sentence:
    “To really let go of one’s self and find total freedom through absolute surrender. It borders on Zen, meditation, devout religion.”

  6. Well done, Scot. A thought-provoking question to be sure.

    Maybe because Sir and I are not in a contractual based relationship or in a TPE, I feel like what you speak of, is what we have. From the beginning it was clear that neither one of us wanted that kind of relationship (protocol, rules, total subservience, slave positions), So he doesn’t do it to mind fuck me, but he thinks that total, mindless submission is boring– he wants the woman inside, not just the submissive. If I’m angry at him then I tell him, without referring to him as Sir or Daddy, or holding my tongue because he’s my D-type. It’s Fatal and xxxx then.

    So maybe he Tops my Bottom (*snicker*) or maybe we’ve just mutually agreed that BDSM is what comes natural for us? I dunno. I wouldn’t mind role playing the total subservience thing one day though. It all seems sort of interesting.

    Also, as a side note, I’ve also noticed that most Doms are absent from sub blogs, and I just wanted to say that Sir is absent from mine because it’s my sacred space. I had it for years as just an outlet before I started chronicling our journey together. He doesn’t comment or write for it, or direct me what to write. He enjoys reading though. We also have a laugh at some of the emails I get. Ho hum.

    Happy Friday.
    xoxo
    Fatal

    • A lovely comment. Thank you so much for sharing this with us and all the other Peekers™.

      Just as I feel that no one is 100% Dominant or submissive all the time, I too feel that there is no such thing as total submission or Domination for this reason. There will always be trace residue of the individual left intact. It will never, ever become total.

      It is curious to see so many submissives doing things, from all appearances, alone. I have made allusions to it being like a theatre performance with the Dominant off stage, whispering lines and ques to the one who is being seen by everyone while they hide in the shadows. TETO…

      And a Happy Friday to you as well!

  7. Great post. As it is now after 2am here, I’ll be thinking about this in – um – about six hours! But:

    **“No idea if a certain, much maligned book series has anything to do with this.”**

    I hope to holy hell it doesn’t! Imagine what they think BDSM is! And how disappointed they’ll be when they discover how few 27-year-old billionaire tycoons are into it!

  8. I read a story once, Scot, a real one, and it pains me that I can’t remember where. The masochist slave devoted her service to her husband, and his response was to have her never ever submit, to run a business and their lives, and to, eventually, watch him dominate another woman the way his wife truly desired to be. The person speaking described this woman as “The best slave ever.”

    For me, such a blatant disregard of my needs would eradicate a person from being worthy of my submission, if I desired that kind of slavery. It’s not all about him, for me, it’s all about both of us, the way we interact together, feeding each other.

    If my husband were to ask me to dominate him for an evening, sure, I would absolutely do it, and take joy in it. But in the situation I described above, absolutely not.

    I think a lot of the active blogs are submissive women in their submission’s infancy because so few stick around once they have realized (and been supported through) the transition stage of their journey.

    • That story sound incredible and sad simultaneously, as if the Dom was exploiting a loop hole, if you will.

      The points you make are wonderful and very sound. And that is an interesting point about the blogs. I’ll keep that in mind. Thanks!

  9. I grinned from ear to ear while reading this. I like the way you think..its also another reason I don’t think I could ever do the 24/7 thing. I need my non-submissive side to govern the rest of my life outside the bedroom…probably another reason I’m having trouble finding a Sir since so many in my area seem to be looking for a doormat . I admire their conviction on one hand while scratching my head with the other.

      • “It seems that, unless I’m just chancing into a significantly disproportionate number of them, most if not all of the non-writing/author erotic blogs are written by submissives. And not just submissives, but new submissives. Like in the first weeks or months of kinky life newborn submissives.”

        As I fit in this category I feel compelled to add that perhaps for many, myself included, this sharing, over sharing and spelling everything out ad infinitum is our way of processing. I process verbally in the “real world”, as do a lot of women I know. I need the chance process in a safe environment free from judgement and the like- I could not do that outside the cloak of anonymity- not in my current situation. Blogging gives me that freedom and opportunity,

        I wonder if once that the kinks are worked out that some infant submissives feel that they no longer need that forum to process or share. If it wasn’t for blogging I would not be able to share my thoughts and gather the insight of others. Some may need that at the beginning- others for longer.

      • An outstanding comment and observation. Wise beyond your BDSM years. Both your points are extremely valid and most certainly worthy of adding to the conversation. Thank you!

  10. Pingback: keeping the spunk | surrenderedbychoice

  11. I re-read this a couple times (insomnia at 2am and a baby awake at 4am) and one thing struck me..which I might have missed so pardon my ignorance as I read again.

    Even though I get the by not submitting they are submitting…would they actually feel that way? By having them not submit in the way they would prefer…is that being passive toward their true desires?

    It may be possible that they do…once they wrap their head around the fact that they are actually still submitting, albeit in a different way.

    And may I add this comment probably made more sense when I originally typed it at 2am (lol)

    • I love this comment. So honest!

      I do not know if they would feel as submissive. Its a very valid point. There is the letter of the law, and the spirit of the law.

      Pretty insightful for 2am!

      • One would say (one being my hubby) that I do my best work at night ;)

        And I applaud your other commenters. Their replies add a different perspective and as a people “watcher” I appreciate the chance to read them.

  12. Funny, I was thinking about my own submissive tendencies today (not really a sub since I don’t have a Dom) and I thought about whether I would even want that type of relationship where I submit completely, 100% of the time – and how I would react if that was wanted OR not wanted…

  13. “I know for damn sure Leigh would not just bristle but laugh uncontrollably if I suggested this to her for us.” I love Leigh’s attitude because it is mine.

    As I excercised this evening, I wondered about a post that was so intensely erotic to me because the “sub” chose “training” and not sex. In doing so, in allowing him to do what he desired, she gave of herself willingly. It was her writing that set the erotic scene so vividly and intensely but – what really became a question was what you ask here but in reference to the Dominant one. I imagined that if a Dom wanted to be subjugated – overtaken, directed and used for his sub’s pleasure, that would take the same stretch of mental tenacity and trusting love that the woman in the first story had to have. I thought to myself that THAT request from a Dom would separate the real Dom’s from the posers. The posers would vehemently oppose the idea, right? I know i could be very wrong here so don’t hold back if you think I’m wrong. I am not in the lifestyle so I’m conjuring up my own desires here. IF I could find a man who could do that switch and still be the Dom in his own head – I would be submissive anytime he wanted… I think : ) Interesting how nobody asked about it from a Dom’s pov to switching roles though. Scot, maybe you can do research on this one??? (smile)

    • A lovely thought! I fucking love this way of thinking. Dominate thru forcing the submissive to Dominate their Dominant.

      This practically borders on genius. And yes, it would certainly separate the real Doms from the posers.

      I love this.

      Sadly, and as I expected, no Dominants have joined the discussion. Perhaps poser is as poser does, huh?

      Hopefully I made it no secret that I am open to switching. Our first experiences were with me as the submissive. I feel it makes me a better Sir knowing what its like. Many texts on the subject support my claim as well.

      I do know that many Dominants feel that this is only possible if the submit to another Dominant, which would completely nullify & negate monogamous switching. Personally I feel that is short sighted, narrow minded and bordering on arrogance. I will guarantee that a large number of Dominants submit on a regular basis to people they view as lesser or submissive to them…and they don’t even know it.

      • Doms only submitting to other Doms and NEVER to their submissive is revealing. It honestly reminds me of how men over generations view women. Older men (raised in 50′s) see women as their childhoods permitted, men today or maybe men from early 70′s see women as empowered or more of an equal. That was the era of the sexual revolution. I’m talking stereotypes so this is in general. I would venture to say that The more “liberated” a Dom is, allows the submissive to give more. At least thats how I would see it. Whatever works best for two people is their business – not mine. I just find the dynamic interesting.

      • I was actually meaning literally. For instance, Leigh chaining you up. Please know, I am clear that this is none of my business I was theorizing, not asking about your own personal life. Jayne

      • I do think sex can be anything when the relationship is pretty balanced. You personify that and that’s healthy to read. I’m glad you two put your stories out in the public. Maybe Leigh can write about that experience…uhm, … and pictures would be great for educational purposes of course. You know – studying is very important. : )

  14. Very interesting musing, thank you for sharing such a contemplative topic. For all that I have read, this is the first post I have felt obliged to reply. Perhaps because I think that I may be one of the “new submissives” to whom you have referred. I would like to respond to several points you made…

    1. For me, the “protocol, ritual, hierarchy” is serving to define the nature of the relationship. It feels empowering to delineate the boundaries we are establishing. We each need to express what our individual desires are. Then we have to agree together on what best suits both of us. It is a strange process in that it is similar to choosing a new TV for the living room, but way more emotional, so not like buying a TV at all.

    2. I know that there are areas where my husband wants me to be more assertive. This is what I think of when you ask what if my husband “directed [me] to not be so submissive all the time?”. In my opinion, anytime I am behaving in a way that is motivated by his direction, then I am acting within my role as a submissive. So, for instance, if he were to tell me to call his mother and initiate an uncomfortable conversation, then I would be obliged to do it, although it is something that is not a particularly submissive thing to do. Or, as another example, if he wanted me to make plans for something that involved a great deal of decision making, I would again feel uncomfortable, but it may be his way of pushing my limits. Did I miss your point?

    3. Although I do understand how unrealistic the book series is, it was in integral part of what made me decide to initiate the D/s relationship with my husband. It was an easy way to introduce the power dynamic to him without all of the graphic and hardcore and downright scary things you see on BDSM websites. It is mainstream-ized, so it was approachable. He read the first book over a weekend and was intrigued enough to consider what I was suggesting. I think that the books will do more good than harm to the community because they allow people a glimpse without offending.

    • First, thank you for sharing such beautiful and very personal insights. Please feel free to comment more often!

      As far as the books, a rising tide floats all boats. I agree that it will bring many to WIITWD, but I am afraid that the reality of what it is really like will, as well as the mass potential for bad experiences as well as what I envision as a feeding frenzy of inexperienced yet curious submissives to schools of shark Dominants could be a sad reality.

      Your points are well taken. I did notice that in #1 you find submission empowering. So by surrendering power you find it empowering. That is beautiful.

      I hope that everyone is not viewing this as a loop hole for Dominants to exploit as far as the dichotomy. Its not forcing submission through Dominating it itself, but rather the opposite. As fine a power exchange as can be, albeit very individual.

  15. Fascinating post – and follow up decision.
    Perhaps the reason you can think ‘outside the traditional D/s) box so well is that you and Leigh are a couple and many online D/s writers only have the D/s relationship or came to the D/s relationship first.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s